Can Doctors Legally lie?? Acl Injury

Why would the Doc book you in for an op if you did'nt need one? makes no sense, no matter how insistant you were I cannot see doctors giving in like that just for the sake of it

Why would he abandon it if you actually needed it? that makes no sense either. Perhaps on going in he confirm his original diagnosis that you would'nt gain anything from a reconstruction

Have you actually asked him why he did what he did. If not why not.

Seems a very expensive placebo to me.

Were you paying privately or was it covered on insurance by any chance

Have a good un, cheers John Murphy

I had an acl construction as a teenager 13 years ago (after a skiing accident), had meniscal surgery last December and have recently re-injured another meniscus in the same knee, and possibly the acl, skiing. Bad luck, I know. Your story is compelling, and I cannot possibly comment on the behaviour of your doctor it seems very strange indeed. Surely an MRI scan would be incredibly accurate? (I am due one myself in about 8 weeks time). When I injured my acl the first time around, 5 doctors over a period of 8 months claimed that my acl was intact (although it was completely torn). In the meantime, due to the looseness of the knee, I kept injuring various areas of meniscus tissue in the knee, and then finally had an op. So, I guess I never trust docters completely when it's about my knee...

My main comment relates to the nature of the injury itself. When my acl was torn, it was not so painful, and the swelling went down fairly quickly. What has been painful however are the meniscal tears I have had. So did you have any meniscal damage at all? Any info on that? Finally, six weeks of swelling seems like an awful long time. My last tear caused one week of swelling, and it is a month ago now. How are the Range of Movement exercises going? The only thing that seems to lack for me right now is to be able to bend it completely. Anyway, all the best of luck! (If I were you, I would ask the doc for a few more details on his choices). Best, Nanuska wink

I wasnt paying privately - it was the National Health Service in the UK.

I spoke to the doctor have surgery, on the ward whilst I was still a little tired after anaesethetic... i remember asking if there was any damage to my meniscus he said " there wasnt" and there was no other damage.

I do however recall an inital X-Ray straight after the injury where i was told there was " a broken bone" somewhere in my knee area.

As for the surgery I think hes abandoned the reconstruction due to the fact my knee is still stable. True in the short term, but in the long term - obviously theres the risk of damage to my meniscus ( if it is indeed ruptured)

It took a while to get my bending motion back but iam able to kneel all the way back on my injured knee now
Im not due to see the doctor again until the middle of June now

Mate there is no maybe when tearing an ACL. If it's gone it sticks out like you know what.

No surgeon will abondon a surgical procedure for no reason. They make a fortune from the procedure. If anything most surgeon are knife happy.

A torn ligament will usually be MORE painful than a ruptured one. Sinmply because when you rupture a ligament all nerve endings are severed so sensation to the area is lost. A partial tear is more painful as since there is still nerve flow to the area pain fibres are still active. Every time the ligament tears a litlle more it sets off nociception.

Did he say anything about the meniscus? That may be what he wants to go in for, Sounds to me like you are doing fine. If you can play soccer without pain than that is an indication to me that you don't need the surgery.

What did the MRI say? If the MRI said your acl was gone, than it was gone. Plenty of surgeons will test an unstable knee and think possibly there is a tear, confirm it with MRI. If your knee was very swollen at the time the MRI could have been bad. There are plenty of high level athletes that have torn their acl and returned without surgery. John Elway and Thurman Thomas to name a couple. The issue with this, if your knee is functionally stable with activity, you are still causing significant wear and tear on your knee with activity. This leads to arthritis, which leads to a total knee replacement later on in life. If you are playing soccer at a high level, than you may want to get another opinion, another MRI, if the ACL is truly torn than surgery now, when you are active and heal quicker is a better option than total knee when you are 60. Let me know if you have any questions.
Jake Thompson MPT, ATC/LAT, CSCS

Hi, Quick Recap.....
The MRI scan showed ( According to the Doc) a Ruptured ACL.
I understand your point fully about arthritus and wear and tear if the reconstruction isnt done....
For this reason I asked for a reconstruction to be done, even tho i was told " its not necassary" b/c i still have a very stable knee with no giving knee.
Upon being anaethnaetised for the reconstruction i awoke to be told that the procedure was aborted as my ACL is still "80% intact still"

There is no other damage according to the Doctor and for the record i havent attempted to play soccer again, although i have been on 3-4 mile runs before the attempted reconstuction.
Im currently im limboland between a niggly knee from surgery and starting what ive been told will be "specialised ACL physio"

Did he say anything about the meniscus? That may be what he wants to go in for, Sounds to me like you are doing fine. If you can play soccer without pain than that is an indication to me that you don't need the surgery.

What did the MRI say? If the MRI said your acl was gone, than it was gone. Plenty of surgeons will test an unstable knee and think possibly there is a tear, confirm it with MRI. If your knee was very swollen at the time the MRI could have been bad. There are plenty of high level athletes that have torn their acl and returned without surgery. John Elway and Thurman Thomas to name a couple. The issue with this, if your knee is functionally stable with activity, you are still causing significant wear and tear on your knee with activity. This leads to arthritis, which leads to a total knee replacement later on in life. If you are playing soccer at a high level, than you may want to get another opinion, another MRI, if the ACL is truly torn than surgery now, when you are active and heal quicker is a better option than total knee when you are 60. Let me know if you have any questions.
Jake Thompson MPT, ATC/LAT, CSCS

Don't know what had happened with your knee since ur last post...
I would advice you to look for Mr John Skinner or Mr Carriungton - both of them work at the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital at Stanmore, London and are very good in knee-reconstructive operations. Think someone of them could give u an advise and help u so
regards

Hi-
Ive been back to the Doctor and Physio...
I have a Partially ruptured ACL - which is still 75% intact and very stable.
Im back to running, sprinting and ive tried some practice dribbling and shooting with a soccer ball .Hoping to get back to sport soon after what is coming up to a Year out of the game.
As you can imagen tho although i can do all the aforementioned activity without any pain - my knee still feels a bit "loose" and nowto "clicks"--- something it didnt do b4 injury.
Im very aprehensive about returning to the game . but it is the next logical progression

Keen,

Work your hamstrings, curls on physioball, single leg RDL, glute ham raises, dynamic lunges in multiple directions, kettlebell swings, thow med balls behind head from squating position. All this will help stablize your knee. Don't forget about the rest (adductors, abductors, quads, gastroc/soleus).

It may be that you misunderstood what the operation was. I suspect you were booked in for an arthroscopy ?proceed. At arthroscopy the ACL was found to be intact so no further action was called for. No NHS doctor in the UK would do an operation when its not needed-they don't get paid by number of operations- Dr Trev is completely mistaken. In the private sector it is always a worry and dentists have been known to do this.
ACL injury is difficult to diagnose on MRI. It is only in a minority of cases that you can be sure whether its normal or torn. The other problem is that many people function quite well with torn ACLs as it is not the only structure stablising the knee.