Hi Steven,

Theoretically consuming protein before and after exercise has many benefits and is probably why you have been advised to do this. Before exercise the protein shake will help preserve lean tissue (muscle) by decreasing exercise induced catabolism (muscle breakdown) and will provide a small amount of energy. Post exercise the protein shake will aid recovery (but more so when combined with carbohydrate) as the protein/amino acids will be available for energy and lean tissue regeneration.

Practically however consuming a protein shake before and after exercise is going to be really expensive. Your concerns about overloading with protein would depend on the protein you consume within your diet. The upper limit of of protein consumption seems to be 2g/kg/day of body mass (if an athlete weighed 70kg then the upper limit of protein consumption would be 140g/day). Above these levels there seems to be no more benefit.

If you planned a meal 2-3 hours before exercise containing adequete amounts of protein (around 30g) this would be enough to subsitute for your protein shake.

Taking your protein shake post exercise will probably have a greater effect than prior. Because its in a liquid form it has a higher gastric emptying rate and therefore absorbtion. This combined with increased insulin secretion during exercise will improve the proteins uptake into muscle cells and aid recovery.

So with proper meal planning the most effective time to drink the protein shake would be after exercise. You should look at your diet and the amount of protein you consume and also combine your protein with carbohydrate to improve recovery.

Hope this helps in a general way.

Alan.

I don't think this debate will ever end really but to be honest which eer you do, you probably wont notice significant differences in recovery/LBM gains etc.

Tipton et al (2001) showed that a drink containing amino acids and carbohydrates taken before a bout of resistnace training actually led to a significantly greater uptake of amino acids into the muscle than if the same thing was taken post workout.

To make use of greater nutrient absorbtion you may emply multiple shakes which doesnt have to be particularily expensive. It is most likely you are paying way over what you could be, check my Sig. for details.

Taking a BCAA solution with dextrose either immediately before or during your workout and then having a Whey concentrate drink after with mixed GI carbs say dextrose and maltodextrin could give you the best of both worlds.

Koopman et al (2005) also showed that adding extra Leucine to a protein and carbohydrate drink will stimulate a greater amount of protein synthesis than simply adding more protein to a Pro + CHO drink. This is thought to be becuase Leucine seems to independantly stimulate PS regardless of a stimulus.

HTH

Martin

Hi all,

Nutrition is not my strongest area but i seem to remember reading about the role of fats and CHO acting as carriers into the system, and that the absence of of certain types of fats and CHO can result in much of the taken supplement passing through the system.

Martin or Alan have you looked into this theory? ifso would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

dan

Whats happened to eating whole foods with adequate macro and micro nutrients pre and post trainng? Do we really need to depend on supplmenetation to get the best out of recovery?

Hey Alex,

I agree if you can stomach it, but personally I eat before and then cannot really eat for around 1-2 hours after training. I find that if I get my solid diet basically right I can get good improvements if I have a shake within 30mins of finishing in the gym. I do try and keep supplements to a minimum though.

Dan,

I havent heard of this in particular. Any idea of the systems the CHOs and fats where acting on? I have recently heard the idea of only consuming fat and protein post workout but this is mainly only touted by companies who will benefit from it e.g. UDOs

Alex - The studies I quoted only relate to protein and carbs as opposed to whey and dextrose. I agree whole foods are a priority but supplements can be of use if used effectively.

p.s. Dan, thanx for using Martin and not B....... :roll:

Hi alan;

Ive seen that you have mentioned that 140 g / day of protein consumption is the upper limit.

In your experience does this protein figure applys to pure athletes and would it differ from say a non-athlete?

Basically im trying to get a idea in terms of dietary protein and what people suggest non-athlete individuals should consume if there training at differring levels of intensity and frequency.

Any help or advice is greately appreciated.

Alex,

Consuming whole foods and balanced meals should always be a priority, sometimes supplements can be a useful alternative when the whole food option is unavailable. Saying that, I belive there is too much emphasis placed upon supplements people often see them as the magic ingredient that will improve performance, when really its just an issue of poor nutritional education driving uninformed descisions with a touch of expert marketing on behalf of the supplement companies!

Dan,

I haven't heard of this theory, I can have a look into it for you and see what I can find. There are Long chain fatty acid transport proteins in skeletal muscle that control the movement on FFA's into muscle.

Mike,

2g/kg/day of body mass is seems to be the upper limit for protein intake. It would be 140g if you weighed 70kg. If you weighed 100Kg it would be 200g. The amount of protein intake would differ depending upon the sport, Power athletes would require between 1.6-1.8g/kg/day, whereas a sport such as golf would be around 1.3-1.5g/kg/day. Some athletes would require twice as much protein as a non-athlete (which is around 0.9-1.1g/kg/day) this is because they have a much greater protein turnover due to the continual breakdown and synthesis of mainly skeletal muscle. Its hard to say how much protein an individual would require without knowing the intensity and frequency of exercise. If they're non-athletes then a normal healthy balanced diet will contain all the protein they require.

Alan

P.S. I just got drawn Ghana and Costa Rica in the world cup sweep stake! What dya reckon my chances of winning are?????!!!

Hi alan, thanks for the rapid respnse. :P

The advice is appreciated

Only athletes engaging in heavy resistance training will require more protein in their diet........

Exercise as in running, playing football etc etc does not increase protein turnover as far as I am aware. Prolonged exercise may even slightly decrease PS and degradation is not significantly affected unless in times of severe glycogen depletion :)

Significant strength gains can be made on very low protein intakes. Dietary protein intake above 1.8g/kg have not been shown to increase strength or LBM gains.

I could reference if you would like but I am in a rush.

Martin

p.s. for a non athelte 0.8g/kg will be fine.